eCommerce Townhall Ep2: Email Marketing – Flow Architecture, Segmenting and SMS with Dylan Kelley of Wavebreak.co

0:00:00 – hey guys in today’s episode i’m digging
0:02:00 – in with email marketing ninja
0:04:00 – Dylan Kelley. Dylan runs email for eight
0:07:00 – and nine figure brands
0:09:00 – and has this stuff really down to a
0:11:00 – science he was one of the first Klaviyo
0:13:00 – consultants in the early days when
0:14:00 – Klaviyo came out
0:15:00 – and really just knows his stuff when it
0:17:00 – comes to email so we’re going to be
0:18:00 – talking about things like flow
0:19:00 – architecture
0:21:00 – segmentation and how not to overdo it
0:23:00 – with segmenting
0:24:00 – sms and where that fits in to the
0:27:00 – channel and and really everything in
0:28:00 – between so
0:29:00 – assuming you’re focused on growing email
0:32:00 – as a channel which you definitely should
0:33:00 – be
0:34:00 – uh then you don’t want to miss this
0:35:00 – episode so stay tuned dig in and be sure
0:37:00 – to implement what you’ve learned
0:39:00 – welcome to e-commerce town hall where
0:41:00 – six seven and eight-figure e-commerce
0:43:00 – store
0:44:00 – leaders learn how to scale and
0:46:00 – streamline
0:47:00 – to get to the next level on each episode
0:49:00 – you’ll see strategies from the industry
0:51:00 – experts behind successful stores
0:53:00 – that you can take back and apply with
0:55:00 – your teams right away
0:57:00 – the show is brought to you by
0:59:00 – helpflow.com help blow provides 24 7
1:02:00 – live chat teams to over a hundred
1:04:00 – e-commerce stores
1:05:00 – and can help you drive more sales while
1:08:00 – providing an awesome customer experience
1:10:00 – through their live chat agents check
1:12:00 – them out at helpflow.com
1:14:00 – but for now let’s dive into today’s
1:16:00 – episode
1:18:00 – alright guys welcome back to the
1:20:00 – ecommerce town hall
1:22:00 – uh today i’m pumped to have dylan kelly
1:24:00 – uh dylan kelly is ceo at Wavebreak also
1:26:00 – a friend of mine
1:27:00 – uh and waybreak is a boutique email
1:30:00 – agency
1:31:00 – that really helps um you know seven
1:33:00 – eight and even nine figure brands
1:34:00 – um turn email into really like a
1:38:00 – top revenue driver for them and
1:41:00 – there’s so much going on with you know
1:43:00 – advertising and ios 14 and just
1:46:00 – you know acquisition has always been
1:47:00 – hard it just changes over time
1:49:00 – um but with all of that happening right
1:51:00 – now it just shows like the importance of
1:53:00 – owning your audience
1:54:00 – and email and sms is a killer way to do
1:56:00 – that and so we’re going to dive in
1:57:00 – um we’re going to dive in with dylan
1:59:00 – into email from the perspective of you
2:01:00 – know these brands that have turned it
2:03:00 – into a big channel for themselves
2:05:00 – like how do they approach email how do
2:06:00 – they think about it and
2:08:00 – you know how has that helped them to
2:09:00 – really have you know a fortified
2:11:00 – owned audience that you know facebook
2:13:00 – google tick tock whatever advertising
2:15:00 – network’s gonna be big next
2:16:00 – like it can’t take it away right um we
2:18:00 – want you to see that from their
2:19:00 – perspective and really see how you can
2:21:00 – do that uh
2:22:00 – in your business as well so uh dylan
2:24:00 – super super excited to have you man
2:26:00 – thanks for joining us
2:27:00 – yeah thanks for thanks for having me on
2:29:00 – like you mentioned we’ve been friends
2:30:00 – for a long time and it’s great to
2:32:00 – you’ve been on my show a few times and
2:34:00 – it’s great to be to to be on your show
2:36:00 – now
2:37:00 – yeah yeah i’m super excited man um
2:39:00 – before we get into kind of you know
2:40:00 – email like how to do email marketing
2:42:00 – um give me kind of a background um i
2:45:00 – mean i know your background but you’re
2:46:00 – working with some big brands you’ve been
2:47:00 – doing this for a long time like
2:49:00 – give us kind of a snapshot um of like
2:52:00 – the journey you’ve been on and how you
2:53:00 – got to this point like why
2:55:00 – why you know the stuff that you know
2:58:00 – yeah absolutely so
2:59:00 – yeah like you mentioned way breaks a
3:01:00 – boutique agency all we do
3:02:00 – is email and sms for e-commerce brands
3:05:00 – and retail brands
3:06:00 – and that’s 100 all we’re focused on and
3:08:00 – i started way break back in 2016
3:11:00 – really as one of the first agencies in
3:12:00 – this space focused on email because i
3:15:00 – saw the gap in the marketplace so
3:17:00 – you know i was an outsider when it came
3:19:00 – to e-commerce uh you know typical
3:20:00 – background of a lot of people who are in
3:22:00 – e-commerce now i was doing this
3:23:00 – affiliate marketing stuff
3:24:00 – you sometimes you make a lot of money
3:25:00 – sometimes you don’t i saw these brands
3:27:00 – on instagram starting to grow
3:28:00 – think movement watches the pure video
3:30:00 – bracelets i was like wow that’s really
3:32:00 – cool
3:32:00 – i want to get in on that and i had this
3:35:00 – experience doing different things in web
3:37:00 – design and affiliate marketing
3:38:00 – um and so i created weight break back in
3:40:00 – 2016 first
3:42:00 – initially focused on conversion rate
3:44:00 – optimization
3:45:00 – but that didn’t really last very long it
3:46:00 – only lasted a few months because what
3:48:00 – ended up happening is
3:49:00 – uh you know brand that’s still around
3:51:00 – today that’s been really successful in
3:52:00 – the d2c and shopify circles
3:54:00 – hired me to optimize their landing pages
3:56:00 – that they’re sending facebook ads
3:57:00 – traffic to
3:58:00 – um and what ended up happening was the
3:59:00 – larger brands entered the space which is
4:01:00 – something that we’re seeing even more
4:03:00 – now uh almost five years later since
4:05:00 – then um
4:06:00 – and drove up the cost of ads and they
4:08:00 – were basically like hey dylan you know
4:09:00 – we can’t fit like our traffic’s to zero
4:12:00 – this is this was a seven figure brand at
4:13:00 – the time now i think they’re well into
4:15:00 – the eight figures probably approaching
4:16:00 – nine figures but they’re like
4:17:00 – you know we can’t afford to keep you on
4:19:00 – because there’s no traffic for you to
4:20:00 – optimize
4:21:00 – and i was like okay like that sucks
4:25:00 – um and then what i started noticing was
4:26:00 – like for these brands particularly the
4:28:00 – up and coming brands like they really
4:30:00 – overlooked email klavio wasn’t as
4:32:00 – popular as it is now
4:34:00 – sms wasn’t even really a thing for
4:36:00 – especially like
4:37:00 – up-and-coming brands who were
4:39:00 – experiencing high growth on shopify
4:40:00 – and i really saw that gap and i was one
4:42:00 – of the first people to see it and that’s
4:44:00 – kind of when i went to work because i
4:45:00 – had this experience designing landing
4:47:00 – pages
4:47:00 – emails are essentially a landing page um
4:50:00 – that you’re sending you know a few times
4:51:00 – a week
4:52:00 – through triggered sequences took that
4:54:00 – applied it to the email channel
4:55:00 – figured out it worked really well first
4:57:00 – client uh increased their email revenue
4:59:00 – 5x within 60 days
5:00:00 – had a super successful black friday
5:02:00 – continued to scale and grow from there
5:04:00 – now we’re a small boutique team powering
5:06:00 – email like you said for
5:07:00 – a lot of eight and nine figure brands um
5:09:00 – you know we’ve
5:10:00 – we’ve had success scaling programs from
5:13:00 – 5 million a year to 30 million a year um
5:15:00 – and taking those economies of scale to
5:16:00 – our clients you’re only doing five
5:18:00 – million total revenue and applying those
5:19:00 – learnings to their business
5:20:00 – um and yeah like you said like email is
5:22:00 – a powerful revenue driver sms’s now too
5:25:00 – um and we’re really focused on quality
5:27:00 – over quantity approach working with a
5:28:00 – select few clients driving maximum
5:30:00 – results from the channel and just
5:31:00 – building
5:32:00 – really great programs around it so
5:34:00 – that’s quick overview of
5:35:00 – what web brick is and how i got into it
5:38:00 – awesome awesome
5:39:00 – uh i like your style man we both talk
5:41:00 – really fast um
5:42:00 – most people would say we’re going to
5:43:00 – slow down a little bit for the listener
5:44:00 – but what i would say is
5:45:00 – if you’re watching on youtube or
5:47:00 – listening on the podcast you can
5:48:00 – actually slow it down too so uh maybe
5:50:00 – listen at 75 percent if dylan and i
5:52:00 – this is not one to listen in 2x speed
5:54:00 – it’s funny because people
5:55:00 – your brain will be like they’re like hey
5:57:00 – i only have 30 minutes for a meeting and
5:58:00 – it’s funny because like people will
6:00:00 – email me and they’ll be like
6:01:00 – it’s fine dylan talks fast we only need
6:03:00 – 15. um it’s just because i get really
6:05:00 – excited about email and its potential
6:07:00 – but yeah
6:07:00 – definitely not a podcast to listen to a
6:09:00 – two-time stream with both of us talking
6:11:00 – i love it i love it but you’ll get uh
6:12:00 – you’ll get a lot of content ideas
6:15:00 – um we’ll cover as much as the 90 minute
6:16:00 – podcast in 30 minutes
6:18:00 – um getting into it though why email
6:21:00 – like why why should brands be focused on
6:23:00 – email maybe paint a picture of like a
6:25:00 – little more
6:26:00 – depth of what happened to that brand um
6:28:00 – that kind of got you focused on email
6:29:00 – what do you see happening to certain
6:31:00 – clients that are coming to you now
6:33:00 – is there anything like specific related
6:34:00 – ios 14 like
6:36:00 – why is email so important um
6:39:00 – as a channel for brands yeah
6:42:00 – ultimately just like you said like the
6:46:00 – there’s been a shift where everybody
6:48:00 – initially was focused so much on
6:49:00 – acquisition because nobody had any
6:51:00 – customers
6:52:00 – um now acquisition is getting a lot
6:54:00 – harder so
6:55:00 – if channels like facebook it’s getting
6:56:00 – more competitive it’s getting more
6:58:00 – expensive
6:59:00 – it has been even before updates like ios
7:01:00 – 14
7:02:00 – um it’s just a trend right even tv like
7:05:00 – a tv ad 20 years ago
7:06:00 – is not cheaper today it’s more expensive
7:09:00 – and it’s just a trend in advertising
7:10:00 – advertising is always going to cost more
7:12:00 – the cost to require customers always
7:14:00 – going to get more expensive
7:15:00 – and what’s crazy in digital is it’s it’s
7:17:00 – increasing even
7:18:00 – faster on a platform like facebook and
7:20:00 – then you have the pandemic
7:22:00 – accelerating spend of bigger retailers
7:24:00 – with deeper pockets buying up that
7:25:00 – inventory increasing prices
7:27:00 – then you have ios 14 now rolling out
7:29:00 – which you know
7:30:00 – nobody still i don’t know when exactly
7:32:00 – this is going to air but like we’re
7:34:00 – still recording this early on where
7:35:00 – we’re not really sure what’s happening
7:37:00 – yet nobody really knows what’s going on
7:40:00 – not a lot of good things are happening
7:41:00 – in terms of ios 14.
7:43:00 – we don’t have a lot of people saying wow
7:44:00 – my facebook roads is going up or like we
7:46:00 – had a record facebook
7:48:00 – this month like nobody’s having that
7:49:00 – like roast from 2016 to present has done
7:52:00 – nothing but go down
7:53:00 – it doesn’t and what i’m saying is like
7:55:00 – facebook it doesn’t mean get rid of
7:56:00 – facebook as a channel you definitely
7:58:00 – need it but the problem is people have
7:59:00 – been so focused on acquisition
8:01:00 – and acquisition’s just getting more
8:02:00 – competitive and it’s getting harder so
8:04:00 – you can’t just build a business off the
8:05:00 – back of acquisition anymore
8:06:00 – you need to start thinking about how you
8:08:00 – can do more of your existing traffic so
8:10:00 – even influencer marketing it’s getting
8:11:00 – more expensive
8:12:00 – seo it’s getting way more competitive uh
8:14:00 – google search same thing’s happening
8:16:00 – cost of advertising is getting expensive
8:17:00 – there’s more competition
8:19:00 – and you’re not going to be able to
8:20:00 – survive if the price keeps increasing on
8:22:00 – all these channels and
8:23:00 – the return on investment keeps getting
8:25:00 – lower and lower and what’s so great
8:26:00 – about email and sms
8:28:00 – is it extracts revenue from what you’re
8:30:00 – already doing inside your customers and
8:31:00 – inside your traffic
8:32:00 – it’s not going to solve your problems if
8:34:00 – you have no customers and you have no
8:35:00 – traffic
8:36:00 – but if you don’t have a fully optimized
8:38:00 – email and sms program
8:39:00 – and you’re spending a lot of money on
8:40:00 – facebook or you’re doing a lot of
8:41:00 – organic search
8:43:00 – and seo to drive a lot of traffic to
8:44:00 – your website you’re probably leaving a
8:46:00 – significant amount of revenue on the
8:48:00 – table
8:48:00 – because you don’t have an optimized
8:50:00 – program and that’s what’s great about
8:51:00 – email
8:52:00 – it maximizes more of what you’re already
8:53:00 – doing um
8:55:00 – and drives a lot of revenue it’s still
8:57:00 – the highest roi
8:58:00 – in most of marketing it’s really hard to
9:00:00 – beat like even some of our highest
9:02:00 – performing clients from an roi
9:03:00 – standpoint they’re spending
9:04:00 – a dollar on our service and they’re
9:05:00 – getting over 300 back our lowest
9:08:00 – performing clients are getting anywhere
9:09:00 – from 5 to 10x return
9:11:00 – versus like compare it to a facebook ad
9:12:00 – like did you ever get a 300 x return on
9:15:00 – a facebook ad and those are wiser with
9:16:00 – their fee included so it’s an extremely
9:18:00 – profitable channel
9:19:00 – it’s money that’s already in your
9:20:00 – business and nobody’s really doing it
9:22:00 – well it doesn’t matter if you’re
9:24:00 – you know a 2 million a year retailer or
9:25:00 – 200 million year retailer
9:27:00 – i would say really less than five you
9:29:00 – know and that’s probably being generous
9:30:00 – less than five percent of brands are
9:32:00 – really doing email
9:33:00 – and sms well um and most brands have a
9:36:00 – lot of untapped revenue
9:37:00 – in their customer base that’s going to
9:39:00 – be make or break in the next five years
9:40:00 – as facebook ads continue to get more and
9:42:00 – more expensive
9:43:00 – you’re going to have to double down on
9:44:00 – the customer and email is a great way to
9:45:00 – do that not just diversify your
9:47:00 – marketing but build a stronger brand
9:48:00 – that’s actually going to stand the test
9:50:00 – of time
9:51:00 – that’s killer i mean um did i hear you
9:53:00 – writing saying
9:54:00 – um the lowest performing clients are at
9:57:00 – a 10x return
9:58:00 – one dollar in 10 out yeah like 5.5 x i
10:01:00 – think is our lowest and then like
10:02:00 – five to 10x is kind of our lowest bucket
10:04:00 – of clients um
10:06:00 – but even then it’s like that’s still way
10:08:00 – better than the best performing facebook
10:09:00 – ads nowadays
10:11:00 – yeah three to four is is good on
10:13:00 – facebook i mean that’s like amazing
10:16:00 – yeah and we have clients who who go
10:18:00 – negative on the first order
10:19:00 – um because of what we do so powerful on
10:21:00 – the back end and like that’s becoming
10:22:00 – more common
10:23:00 – terms like ltv cac like that’s that’s a
10:26:00 – thing now like five years ago nobody was
10:28:00 – talking about ltv
10:29:00 – cac because like it wasn’t you didn’t
10:31:00 – need to be because you’re getting a
10:32:00 – three to four x rise on your facebook
10:33:00 – ads so you’re profitable in the first
10:34:00 – sale
10:35:00 – what are the brands get right about
10:37:00 – email like um you mentioned
10:39:00 – you know it enhances what you’re already
10:40:00 – doing it’s the highest roi channel you
10:42:00 – know less than five percent of brands
10:44:00 – are really doing it well um
10:46:00 – we’ll get into some like super tactical
10:48:00 – stuff but at a high level like
10:50:00 – what do you see brands that do well with
10:53:00 – email what are what are the high level
10:55:00 – things that they’re doing right how are
10:56:00 – they thinking about email like what
10:58:00 – parts of their email strategy are they
11:00:00 – focused on like
11:01:00 – paint a picture of what does it look
11:02:00 – like to do email well and then we can
11:04:00 – start diving into like each part
11:06:00 – uh each part a little more individually
11:08:00 – yeah the biggest thing
11:10:00 – is it comes down to focus for brands so
11:12:00 – the brands who are actually focusing on
11:14:00 – email and a channel like now like sms
11:17:00 – like we can just loop them together and
11:18:00 – call it just
11:18:00 – email but i’m also talking about sms now
11:20:00 – which we can get into later on
11:22:00 – how powerful the channel that is but
11:23:00 – they just focus on it and they realize
11:25:00 – that it’s a great channel and it should
11:27:00 – be a top priority and that’s like first
11:29:00 – and foremost like most companies their
11:31:00 – marketing budget is broken and it’s 100
11:33:00 – dedicated to acquisition they’re
11:34:00 – spending 500
11:35:00 – a month on facebook ads and you know
11:37:00 – they’re paying for klavio and that’s
11:38:00 – about it
11:39:00 – and then when brands realize that
11:41:00 – email’s powerful then
11:43:00 – it’s funny they they start to focus on
11:44:00 – it but then a lot of them focus on it in
11:46:00 – the wrong way and then they just like
11:47:00 – run their list into the ground
11:48:00 – and so it’s kind of a tricky balance but
11:50:00 – the right brands realize the power of it
11:52:00 – and they invest their resources into it
11:53:00 – like they would it’s a facebook ad
11:55:00 – and what are some of those um right ways
11:58:00 – like um
11:58:00 – we might focus on some of the mistakes
12:00:00 – later but like what what are some of the
12:02:00 – things
12:03:00 – or i mean take that question actually
12:04:00 – whichever way you want to do like what i
12:06:00 – really want people to be able to
12:07:00 – understand
12:08:00 – from this question is what does it look
12:10:00 – like to do email well
12:12:00 – and so if it’s easier to explain that
12:14:00 – from the perspective of like mistakes
12:16:00 – um you know we can dig into that or if
12:18:00 – you have like a good example like this
12:19:00 – is where we ultimately try to get
12:21:00 – clients to you know we could dig into it
12:22:00 – from that perspective but
12:24:00 – um you know what does it look like when
12:25:00 – a brand gets it right
12:27:00 – or does yeah great question yeah so we
12:30:00 – can just start and i can just walk
12:31:00 – through like for example an example
12:32:00 – client like where they start with us and
12:34:00 – then
12:34:00 – where we end up taking them and then you
12:36:00 – kind of see like the full gamut of
12:38:00 – of what we do and like where brands
12:39:00 – start and where we end up bringing them
12:41:00 – to and continue to optimize from but
12:43:00 – essentially like when you break down
12:45:00 – email it’s it’s
12:46:00 – it’s complex at its core like there’s a
12:48:00 – lot of things going on there’s
12:50:00 – deliverability there’s
12:51:00 – creative there’s testing there’s
12:53:00 – optimization there’s all these
12:55:00 – like different pieces to an email
12:56:00 – program but ultimately it’s very simple
12:58:00 – it’s not easy but it’s very simple
13:00:00 – and so we look at it at the high level
13:02:00 – which is like overall like first and
13:03:00 – foremost
13:04:00 – where’s email at as far as like a
13:06:00 – revenue driver a lot of people talk
13:07:00 – about what percent of revenue you’re
13:09:00 – getting from email
13:10:00 – i think that’s great but it’s always not
13:11:00 – a great indicator like you could have a
13:12:00 – really engaged list and half your
13:14:00 – revenue is coming from it but you don’t
13:15:00 – have any triggered emails set up
13:16:00 – on the email flow automation side so um
13:19:00 – you know we get clients who come to us
13:21:00 – who
13:21:00 – don’t really have any automation set up
13:23:00 – um so we’re talking abandoned cards
13:25:00 – we’re talking post purchase journeys
13:27:00 – we’re talking
13:28:00 – you know in drop indoctrination series
13:30:00 – welcome series to
13:31:00 – convert first people to their first
13:33:00 – purchase people to their next purchase
13:35:00 – recover abandoned carts uh retarget
13:37:00 – people who view that don’t buy
13:38:00 – um like all these things are really
13:40:00 – important but a lot of our clients come
13:41:00 – to us with either
13:43:00 – a few of them set up none of them set up
13:45:00 – or
13:46:00 – they’re set up and they were set up
13:47:00 – three years ago and they haven’t been
13:48:00 – given any love since
13:50:00 – and these are tools that can power 10 to
13:53:00 – 20 of your revenue just from the
13:54:00 – automated emails alone
13:55:00 – and they’re almost always underutilized
13:59:00 – and since you’re always sending them
14:00:00 – every single day it’s something that you
14:02:00 – should be optimizing and something that
14:03:00 – should be built
14:04:00 – on a best-in-class methodology you know
14:06:00 – get over to the campaign side
14:08:00 – those are your one-off sends your your
14:10:00 – newsletters you know some of the more
14:12:00 – i guess you could say like higher
14:14:00 – revenue brands come to us they’re
14:15:00 – usually sending a decent amount of those
14:17:00 – but they might be sending too much or
14:18:00 – they’re sending repetitive content or
14:20:00 – they’re not sending great content so
14:21:00 – making sure you’re balancing the volume
14:23:00 – of your setting that you’re sending
14:24:00 – enough to
14:25:00 – really maximize revenue from the channel
14:27:00 – but you’re also sending great content
14:28:00 – and and your segmentation is smart so
14:30:00 – that you’re not just
14:31:00 – mailing your list into the ground
14:32:00 – because like there’s a lot of companies
14:34:00 – with huge lists who are getting no
14:36:00 – return from them because
14:37:00 – they have not a great engagement from
14:40:00 – their list because they
14:41:00 – focused on the wrong thing so ultimately
14:43:00 – it’s like you need a great suite of
14:44:00 – email automation that’s built to the
14:46:00 – customer journey that’s another big
14:47:00 – mistake we make it’s just people just
14:49:00 – guess the timing they guess the content
14:51:00 – and everything and it’s the same with
14:53:00 – agencies they’ll just go in and copy and
14:54:00 – paste the same templates
14:56:00 – and it’s just like that doesn’t work
14:57:00 – because like we have a client who’s
14:58:00 – really successful who sells mattresses
15:00:00 – they’re getting an insane roi on our
15:01:00 – service
15:02:00 – because we built it around their
15:03:00 – customer journey we also have another
15:05:00 – client who sells phone cases teeth
15:06:00 – whitening
15:07:00 – whatever it may be it’s like all these
15:08:00 – products are bought differently and you
15:10:00 – need to build the email program around
15:11:00 – those
15:12:00 – uh but then come back to those two core
15:14:00 – pieces of your email marketing which is
15:16:00 – like
15:16:00 – the automation and then the ongoing
15:18:00 – campaigns
15:19:00 – at a high level and then we’ll take them
15:22:00 – to a place where that’s fully optimized
15:23:00 – on both of those which we can get into
15:25:00 – more details
15:26:00 – as we go awesome awesome no this is
15:28:00 – killer i got a couple of clarifying
15:29:00 – questions um related to those pieces
15:31:00 – first
15:32:00 – um how how do you focus on
15:36:00 – measuring the financial success of email
15:39:00 – as a channel is it not percentage of
15:41:00 – revenue like
15:42:00 – help us understand like how do you
15:43:00 – define it when a client comes in
15:45:00 – um so that people can kind of quantify
15:47:00 – it for themselves of how they’re doing
15:48:00 – and then setting a goal of where they
15:50:00 – wanted to get to
15:51:00 – yeah so for us it’s based on our
15:53:00 – internal data that we have working with
15:55:00 – all the brands we have over the last
15:56:00 – five years but ultimately to find that
15:59:00 – what we’re looking at is
16:00:00 – what is your existing setup from
16:01:00 – literally like a checklist perspective
16:03:00 – of do you have this do you have that
16:05:00 – and then what is the amount of revenue
16:07:00 – you’re getting from the channel and
16:08:00 – where is it coming from within that so
16:10:00 – then we kind of benchmark it with our
16:11:00 – internal data and say hey
16:12:00 – you’re getting a lot of your revenue
16:13:00 – from email but you only have half the
16:15:00 – best practices that we set up with our
16:16:00 – clients set up
16:17:00 – so you can drive a lot more as far as
16:19:00 – specifics around that it varies
16:20:00 – depending on client average
16:22:00 – order value industry but we have all
16:23:00 – those metrics in-house that we can
16:24:00 – benchmark against to predict like where
16:26:00 – we’ll be in 90 days for the client and
16:28:00 – we’ll build the program to be able to
16:30:00 – hit that target
16:31:00 – um through our initial strategy using
16:33:00 – our own in-house data
16:35:00 – awesome awesome so you’re really it’s
16:37:00 – like a mix of an audit
16:38:00 – and the revenue part of like okay like
16:40:00 – if you’re only doing 20
16:41:00 – of what you should be and you’re driving
16:44:00 – 30
16:44:00 – revenue through email imagine if you’ve
16:46:00 – got the rest of that stuff in place
16:48:00 – right
16:48:00 – i had a clarifying question on one more
16:50:00 – part of that um you said
16:52:00 – figuring out how much uh revenue is
16:54:00 – coming from email as a channel
16:56:00 – and then where it’s coming from within
16:58:00 – the channel can you kind of split those
17:00:00 – out at a high level so people can be
17:01:00 – thinking of that from the
17:03:00 – um like a segmentation perspective so
17:06:00 – are you saying like some of us come from
17:07:00 – pre and post or pre-sale
17:09:00 – some of it’s coming from you know
17:11:00 – abandoned cars some of it’s coming from
17:12:00 – um
17:13:00 – you know retention like when you say
17:14:00 – where it’s coming from in the channel
17:16:00 – what do you mean
17:17:00 – yeah so we mean like um similar to the
17:20:00 – checklist it’s like okay like how much
17:22:00 – is coming from campaigns what percent of
17:24:00 – email revenue is that
17:25:00 – what campaigns are driving it and then
17:27:00 – on the automation side or what’s called
17:29:00 – like flows in Klaviyo for example
17:31:00 – um you know what flows are driving the
17:32:00 – most revenue like you we have some
17:34:00 – clients who have like one flow set up
17:35:00 – they’re sending every other day
17:36:00 – and they’re seeing a lot of revenue from
17:38:00 – email but they’re missing everything on
17:39:00 – the back end they don’t even have an
17:40:00 – abandoned cart set up
17:41:00 – um that sort of thing um and so just
17:44:00 – looking at the breakdown because
17:45:00 – internally we have metrics and we
17:46:00 – know roughly like depending on your
17:48:00 – industry the size of your business what
17:49:00 – percent
17:50:00 – of your email program should come from
17:52:00 – each of those and it’s going to vary so
17:53:00 – it can’t get into super specifics
17:55:00 – um but that that’s ultimately what we
17:57:00 – look at and so
17:58:00 – yeah we’re benchmarking it on both of
18:00:00 – those things and that’s how we can find
18:02:00 – like where you actually should be
18:03:00 – because you’ll be doing 35
18:04:00 – of your revenue from email but it could
18:05:00 – you could just be sending one email a
18:06:00 – month and it’s doing really well
18:08:00 – because it’s doing 100 000 in revenue in
18:10:00 – your 300k a month brand
18:13:00 – it’s powerful i’m kind of i’m thinking
18:14:00 – of it kind of from a sports analogy
18:16:00 – um that like how much can you bench lift
18:19:00 – right
18:20:00 – it doesn’t disrespect like every single
18:21:00 – part of your health right like maybe you
18:23:00 – crush a bench lift but like you can’t
18:24:00 – run half a mile without dying yeah or
18:26:00 – what’s your body weight like you could
18:27:00 – be
18:28:00 – massively overweight 400 pounds and like
18:30:00 – you can bench more than me
18:31:00 – but like i might be stronger than you
18:33:00 – pound per pound
18:34:00 – exactly so what i’m really hearing um
18:36:00 – for for the listeners is like you got to
18:38:00 – look at this holistically right like um
18:40:00 – are you living a healthy life is kind of
18:42:00 – the measure of like are you healthy like
18:43:00 – can you function well for the rest of
18:45:00 – your life
18:45:00 – it’s not just about percentage of email
18:47:00 – it’s about you know how much how much
18:48:00 – revenue you’re driving where it comes
18:50:00 – from
18:51:00 – um you know your holistic plan for email
18:53:00 – like all those things
18:54:00 – um i think that’s that’s super powerful
18:56:00 – um i mean one of the questions i had
18:58:00 – um as we were preparing is like what are
19:00:00 – the must-have flows for stores and i
19:03:00 – don’t know if that’s too much of like a
19:04:00 – newbie question
19:05:00 – i think what i’m more looking at is like
19:07:00 – for the listener like all of our
19:08:00 – listeners like six and seven figure
19:10:00 – brands so like they’re not starting from
19:11:00 – scratch
19:12:00 – they’re all gonna be doing some form of
19:14:00 – email maybe they’ll mail chimp but like
19:16:00 – a lot of them are gonna be on flavio or
19:17:00 – some of the other guys um
19:18:00 – and so i guess i’m curious from their
19:19:00 – perspective like they probably have
19:21:00 – abandoned cart flows but like what are
19:23:00 – some of the
19:24:00 – like the lowest hanging fruit flows that
19:26:00 – you see that when you get those in place
19:27:00 – for brands they do really well you
19:29:00 – rattled them off earlier but
19:30:00 – um let’s slow down and kind of go
19:31:00 – through some of the must-have ones
19:34:00 – definitely i mean the top performers are
19:36:00 – typically your welcome series
19:38:00 – which is growing the list so through
19:40:00 – on-site pop-up through new subscribers
19:41:00 – coming in as customers through your
19:43:00 – footer
19:44:00 – um that’s usually a top performer so
19:46:00 – getting people to become a first-time
19:47:00 – customer
19:48:00 – abandoned card is always a top performer
19:50:00 – browse abandonment in klavio so
19:52:00 – setting up the viewed product tracking
19:54:00 – on your website being able to retarget
19:55:00 – people who don’t buy
19:57:00 – um those are three that are really
19:59:00 – powerful that are a
20:00:00 – great place to start and then beyond
20:02:00 – that too starting to think more about
20:04:00 – the customer journey
20:05:00 – people who buy once how do you get them
20:06:00 – to buy again people who buy twice how do
20:08:00 – you get them to buy again
20:09:00 – um so starting with what we call uh
20:12:00 – cross-sell and retention flow initially
20:14:00 – which is
20:14:00 – you’re not really pushing any discounts
20:16:00 – um you’re just trying to get people to
20:17:00 – buy
20:18:00 – and then if the brand is open to doing a
20:20:00 – discount we’ll later put them into
20:21:00 – more of a win back series to really try
20:23:00 – to win them back as a customer
20:25:00 – we’ll do different things based off
20:26:00 – different products and we’ll get more
20:27:00 – granular and segmented over time as we
20:29:00 – optimize the client’s account
20:31:00 – uh but really it’s it’s really that
20:33:00 – simple but then you get to scale
20:35:00 – and it comes about optimizing so sure
20:37:00 – you have an abandoned car but did you
20:38:00 – set it up two years ago and you’re doing
20:40:00 – 100 grand a month and now you’re doing a
20:41:00 – million a month
20:42:00 – um how much revenue are you putting
20:44:00 – through it oh we’re putting 70 grand a
20:45:00 – month through our ban of car flow
20:46:00 – great so a 10 increase is an extra seven
20:49:00 – grand a month which is
20:50:00 – you know um a lot more revenue per year
20:53:00 – right like almost 100 grand
20:54:00 – um and then that would scale over time
20:56:00 – with your business so like also too it’s
20:58:00 – like people get too complex and like
20:59:00 – they want to add like 30 flows but
21:01:00 – sometimes it’s better
21:02:00 – to be simple and then optimize what you
21:03:00 – already have because it gets more and
21:05:00 – more important at scale too that’s what
21:06:00 – you notice with their bigger clients
21:07:00 – it’s like we’ll run a small test it’ll
21:08:00 – only increase something by like
21:10:00 – 0.5 percent um but you know if you’re at
21:12:00 – a scale of like 100 million dollars a
21:14:00 – year that’s a lot of revenue from like
21:16:00 – one single test yeah oh let’s dig into
21:18:00 – that because i know we wanted to talk
21:20:00 – about optimization so i’m gonna kind of
21:21:00 – change up the order a bit but um
21:24:00 – what is the right what’s the right way
21:26:00 – that uh what’s the right way to be doing
21:28:00 – optimization on email as an entire
21:32:00 – channel like what are some of the best
21:33:00 – practices
21:34:00 – um that you focus on getting in place
21:36:00 – with with um
21:37:00 – clients and like what are some of the
21:38:00 – routines that you know brands that are
21:40:00 – running email in-house
21:42:00 – you know would benefit from you know
21:43:00 – layering into how they do email kind of
21:45:00 – the equivalent of like we talked about
21:46:00 – before with with facebook ads right like
21:48:00 – people you don’t turn on a facebook ad
21:50:00 – and see what happens like there’s a
21:51:00 – whole routine that people do and like
21:53:00 – ad buyers know that and even clients
21:55:00 – know that now where it’s like when you
21:56:00 – they evaluate agencies they know if like
21:58:00 – oh like they don’t they don’t even
21:59:00 – look at row ass like that’d be a huge
22:01:00 – issue right um so i’m curious like
22:03:00 – from an email side like what’s a robust
22:06:00 – way to do
22:07:00 – optimization correctly yeah well it’s
22:10:00 – really similar to
22:11:00 – optimizing your ecommerce site or
22:13:00 – optimizing everything i think a lot of
22:14:00 – brands try to
22:15:00 – just throw things at the wall or they
22:17:00 – they come up with a rule like every
22:18:00 – email must have an a b test which sounds
22:20:00 – like great in practice because it’s like
22:21:00 – okay cool we’re always going to optimize
22:23:00 – but then you end up just a b testing
22:25:00 – subject lines for a quarter and then you
22:26:00 – don’t actually learn anything because
22:28:00 – there’s no real true hypothesis or any
22:30:00 – true test or
22:30:00 – methodology behind what you’re trying to
22:32:00 – discover so just like we think about
22:34:00 – um you know our strategic framework for
22:36:00 – building out a program we think
22:38:00 – about how we optimize our clients
22:40:00 – accounts very strategically as well so
22:42:00 – thinking back to
22:43:00 – like we live and die by the 80 20 rule
22:45:00 – just because it is like
22:46:00 – so powerful and so easy so it’s like
22:48:00 – what is the 20 percent we can test to
22:49:00 – drive 80
22:50:00 – of the results so on the uh flow side
22:54:00 – so for automations it’s looking at okay
22:55:00 – what is the top revenue driving flow and
22:57:00 – then from there what are the top emails
22:59:00 – and then once again it’s like we’re
23:00:00 – looking at everything holistically it’s
23:02:00 – like what is the gap okay well if we’re
23:03:00 – seeing open rates above
23:05:00 – industry benchmark but conversion rates
23:07:00 – are lower than industry benchmark
23:08:00 – we’re going to test creative or offer or
23:11:00 – something in there to optimize for
23:13:00 – a better conversion or if open rates are
23:15:00 – low we’re going to optimize for
23:17:00 – subject lines but if we’re already
23:18:00 – getting great subject lines where are we
23:19:00 – going to optimize subject lines that’d
23:20:00 – be a waste of a test and a waste of
23:21:00 – resources
23:22:00 – and similar for the campaign side with
23:24:00 – your one-off sends that you’re doing a
23:26:00 – few times a week
23:27:00 – um looking at that the same way like
23:28:00 – it’s it’s pretty straightforward Klaviyo
23:30:00 – even has a feature called smart send
23:31:00 – time where it’ll automatically determine
23:33:00 – after a few sends like what the best
23:35:00 – time to send an email is so
23:36:00 – running that and just getting together
23:38:00 – what you would imagine in your head to
23:39:00 – be a dialed program but like
23:41:00 – doing it very strategically so like what
23:43:00 – are our top performing campaigns of the
23:44:00 – past
23:45:00 – and do and and doing more of those which
23:47:00 – isn’t even really a straight a b test
23:49:00 – but it’s more like when you’re being
23:50:00 – being more strategic about your planning
23:52:00 – and then a b testing everything so you
23:54:00 – know
23:54:00 – like for one particular client we know
23:56:00 – that kind of out of the box subject
23:57:00 – lines perform a lot better than
23:59:00 – you know get 15 off the shampoo it’d be
0:01:00 – better than be like
0:02:00 – not like you won’t believe this but um
0:04:00 – just to be a little bit more crazy have
0:06:00 – a little bit more fun with pop culture
0:08:00 – they always
0:08:00 – do well their top you know 30 campaigns
0:10:00 – of last year had crazy subject lines
0:12:00 – versus like
0:13:00 – 20 off normal uh kind of content and
0:16:00 – just
0:17:00 – like really starting to discover like
0:18:00 – okay this is what the best subject line
0:20:00 – is for us this is the best sun time
0:21:00 – these are our top performing campaigns
0:23:00 – which is really straightforward and
0:24:00 – really black and white but i think
0:25:00 – people over complicate it it’s just like
0:27:00 – what would you want to know when you’re
0:28:00 – going to press send to maximize your
0:30:00 – results
0:30:00 – and then you optimize for that and then
0:32:00 – what we do with our clients is we have
0:33:00 – the economies of scale of already doing
0:35:00 – these tests and operating with clients
0:37:00 – over the last five years across a bunch
0:38:00 – of different industries
0:39:00 – over a billion emails sent so we can go
0:42:00 – and take our learnings from an ex from
0:43:00 – our existing client base and apply them
0:45:00 – to
0:46:00 – our current client or our new clients
0:48:00 – from day one so like we don’t even have
0:50:00 – to waste six months testing and
0:51:00 – optimizing we know in general
0:53:00 – for your industry xyz is a good metric
0:55:00 – or this is xyz best
0:57:00 – practice and then starting from there
0:58:00 – but ultimately like optimizing
1:00:00 – people try to make it more complex than
1:02:00 – it needs to be and
1:04:00 – also don’t optimize before you build if
1:06:00 – you’re missing out you’re not sending
1:07:00 – enough or you’re missing some of those
1:08:00 – key flows we talked about
1:10:00 – you should build those first before you
1:12:00 – go and try to optimize and a b test
1:14:00 – every single email you’ve sent that’s a
1:16:00 – good point i mean um
1:17:00 – so if you’re not doing some of those
1:19:00 – best practices um or you don’t have like
1:21:00 – all the the main flows that matter
1:23:00 – like don’t worry so much about like
1:24:00 – split testing every email within the one
1:26:00 – flow that you have right like maybe get
1:27:00 – the rest of the stuff in place
1:29:00 – then start testing um i think that makes
1:32:00 – a lot of sense uh
1:34:00 – we didn’t really dig in too deep on uh
1:36:00 – because i want to transition into sms in
1:37:00 – a second but um
1:38:00 – we didn’t dig too deep on you know
1:40:00 – automation and segmentation and
1:42:00 – one of the things that caught my
1:43:00 – attention um as we were chatting before
1:44:00 – is
1:45:00 – you know you mentioned like people just
1:46:00 – they say that too much like they get
1:48:00 – segmentation wrong i don’t know if
1:49:00 – that’s exactly what you meant or what
1:50:00 – you said
1:50:00 – frankly i might be paraphrasing but it
1:52:00 – sounded like there was something
1:53:00 – contrarian about how you think about
1:56:00 – segmentation automation
1:57:00 – let’s dig into that part like what what
2:00:00 – do people get wrong when it comes to
2:02:00 – you know segmenting and or automating
2:05:00 – with email
2:06:00 – yeah so i think segmentation is
2:09:00 – extremely powerful
2:10:00 – especially for the right company but i
2:12:00 – think especially right now in the
2:14:00 – the place that we’re in in like this
2:15:00 – world of direct consumer and high growth
2:17:00 – and like retention is now like this hot
2:19:00 – cool thing i think segmentation is a bit
2:21:00 – overrated and if you get two segmented
2:24:00 – two
2:24:00 – granular what ends up happening is you
2:26:00 – end up speaking to a very small
2:28:00 – um percent of your audience and you end
2:31:00 – up missing out on money
2:32:00 – versus you know being a little bit more
2:34:00 – generic but you’re ending up gonna
2:35:00 – drive better results and you’re going to
2:37:00 – communicate with more of your customers
2:38:00 – and i think people do that in the wrong
2:40:00 – way
2:40:00 – so like it’s like hey john you bought
2:42:00 – black pants you might like these red
2:43:00 – pants
2:44:00 – that’s great but what about looking at
2:45:00 – segmentation from a more holistic level
2:47:00 – like we were talking about earlier in a
2:49:00 – more strategic level of like where is
2:50:00 – the most money hiding in your business
2:52:00 – like okay
2:53:00 – or do you are 80 of your buyers one-time
2:56:00 – buyers you have a one-time buyer problem
2:58:00 – that’s the segment you should focus on
2:59:00 – not red pants you might also like these
3:01:00 – blue pants
3:02:00 – um and think about segmentation in that
3:04:00 – way more based on customer behavior not
3:06:00 – just based on like customer attributes
3:08:00 – and then optimizing for it as well so
3:11:00 – making sure you’re also
3:12:00 – emailing a segment that’s large enough
3:14:00 – so that’s another mistake we see people
3:16:00 – make it’s like okay we’re gonna go after
3:17:00 – people about the red pants well it’s
3:18:00 – only 2 000 people on their 500 000 list
3:21:00 – so even if you know half the list
3:23:00 – converts it’s only 1500 orders
3:25:00 – versus you know having a lot more people
3:26:00 – convert off that 500 000
3:28:00 – 500 000 person email even though it
3:31:00 – might be a more generic message you’ll
3:32:00 – get more people to your site and you end
3:33:00 – up making more money and you’ll be able
3:35:00 – to keep a relationship with more people
3:37:00 – and so just being able to balance that
3:38:00 – is super important the one segment that
3:40:00 – is small that you can hit up and like
3:42:00 – always drive revenue from for the most
3:43:00 – part
3:44:00 – are the vips so like your top 10 or 20
3:46:00 – of customers or less depending on how
3:47:00 – big the brand is
3:49:00 – um and how many customers you have is a
3:51:00 – really
3:52:00 – great segment that’s really small but
3:54:00 – can actually drive a lot of revenue and
3:56:00 – i think that’s the way brands should
3:57:00 – look at it more is like more like
3:58:00 – where’s this person in their customer
4:00:00 – journey versus
4:01:00 – you know what did they buy might they
4:02:00 – like now um and optimizing for that like
4:04:00 – do a mix of both but like don’t
4:06:00 – don’t worry too much about sending a
4:09:00 – super personalized message for everybody
4:11:00 – especially on the campaign side you can
4:12:00 – always set that up later
4:14:00 – um you know in a flow or something but
4:17:00 – first make sure it’s even worth it
4:18:00 – because so many brands are wasting
4:19:00 – resources to send something
4:21:00 – to some that’s only gonna send to you
4:23:00 – know point zero zero one percent of
4:25:00 – their customer base
4:26:00 – every single month and it sounds great
4:27:00 – from a customer experience perspective
4:28:00 – but
4:29:00 – ultimately it’s a it’s a waste of money
4:30:00 – for the business and not going to drive
4:31:00 – an roi
4:33:00 – dude that’s super super powerful um this
4:36:00 – brings me back to a question i had
4:37:00 – earlier i i still want to hit on it
4:38:00 – because i think it fits here
4:39:00 – um you mentioned a mistake that that
4:42:00 – brands make with email is not
4:44:00 – uh defining the customer journey right
4:46:00 – right and they’re just um you know
4:47:00 – guessing what the customer journey is or
4:49:00 – guessing the timing on certain things
4:51:00 – and then as we’re digging into
4:52:00 – automation and segmentation like what i
4:54:00 – really heard you say
4:55:00 – is focus in on the customer journey and
4:57:00 – figure out like the segment in the
4:59:00 – customer journey where there’s the
5:00:00 – biggest opportunity right
5:01:00 – um can you can you paint a picture of
5:04:00 – like how
5:05:00 – people should define their customer
5:08:00 – journey not not what is a customer
5:10:00 – journey but more of like
5:12:00 – how how does somebody map that out for
5:14:00 – their business what are like the
5:16:00 – big levers within a customer journey
5:18:00 – where you see brands get it wrong
5:19:00 – whether that’s
5:20:00 – you know time to reorder um you know
5:23:00 – lapse time is something that came up
5:25:00 – i don’t know what you guys would call it
5:26:00 – but um you know there’s a lot of
5:28:00 – different things
5:29:00 – uh that go into a customer journey how
5:31:00 – should somebody be thinking about how to
5:33:00 – architect their customer journey so that
5:35:00 – they can then be doing testing within
5:37:00 – each of those how do you define a
5:38:00 – customer journey with clients and what
5:40:00 – are like the main levers
5:41:00 – great question so our most successful
5:43:00 – clients will
5:44:00 – invest in outside firms who specialize
5:47:00 – in this
5:47:00 – to do in-depth uh research on their
5:50:00 – customer base and then
5:51:00 – you know i mean that costs tens of
5:52:00 – thousands of dollars if not hundreds of
5:53:00 – thousands of dollars
5:55:00 – um but in terms of like what you can do
5:56:00 – on an actionable uh
5:58:00 – level for people listing this podcast is
6:00:00 – like what i like to do is just
6:02:00 – look at the most successful customers
6:04:00 – that you have your best customers
6:06:00 – and then literally go through and like
6:08:00 – look through the journey
6:09:00 – of those people like you what’s great
6:11:00 – about a platform like Klaviyo is if you
6:13:00 – find a profile you can see the entire
6:15:00 – history of that person
6:16:00 – so you can see like hey here’s the first
6:17:00 – product they ordered here’s the second
6:19:00 – here’s
6:19:00 – when they’re converting is it off email
6:21:00 – is it off this um
6:22:00 – and then you can really start to figure
6:24:00 – that out and then you know use your data
6:26:00 – and analytics to also determine the
6:27:00 – windows
6:28:00 – of when people are going to come back um
6:32:00 – so in terms of like timing that’s really
6:33:00 – helpful but also you got to realize your
6:35:00 – timing has probably warped
6:36:00 – especially if you don’t have a great
6:37:00 – program bringing people back so if your
6:39:00 – average reorder date is 66 days
6:41:00 – but you haven’t been sending anything
6:43:00 – post purchase besides campaigns
6:44:00 – you can probably make that lower if you
6:46:00 – start going for the sale around day 20
6:48:00 – or 30
6:49:00 – while people are really excited about
6:50:00 – your product so use that as a benchmark
6:52:00 – and then build the strategy around it
6:54:00 – um as far as data goes how to find your
6:56:00 – best customers and what that might look
6:58:00 – like at a high level like that’s kind of
6:59:00 – how we think about it happy to dive in
7:01:00 – deeper there
7:01:00 – but then also too from a strategy and a
7:03:00 – content framework
7:05:00 – just thinking about the customer and
7:06:00 – like putting yourself in their shoes and
7:08:00 – and you know what’s really helpful about
7:10:00 – what you do john with live chat is you
7:11:00 – have a lot of conversations with
7:13:00 – customers in terms of like
7:14:00 – why are you abandoning this a car why
7:16:00 – are you banning this cart why are you
7:17:00 – doing this
7:18:00 – why are you doing that and they have
7:18:00 – their objections and they surface these
7:20:00 – so when you’re abandoning card emails
7:21:00 – and you’re browsing in emails you should
7:23:00 – be feeding these
7:24:00 – to people before they even have the
7:26:00 – chance to ask and taking all those
7:27:00 – objections off the table so by the time
7:29:00 – it comes for them to
7:30:00 – place uh press the place order button
7:32:00 – you don’t have any of these objections
7:33:00 – so that is another aspect of customer
7:36:00 – journey and how to integrate it into
7:37:00 – email
7:37:00 – is just think about how people buy look
7:39:00 – at your emails too and it’s like does
7:41:00 – anybody really want to read a five
7:42:00 – paragraph
7:43:00 – image email that like you gotta like
7:44:00 – zoom in to see
7:46:00 – or an email that you came and see in
7:47:00 – dark mode like that’s customer journey
7:48:00 – related as well
7:50:00 – um and thinking about email from that
7:52:00 – perspective as well so like finding your
7:54:00 – best customers building the program
7:55:00 – around that and then also finding the
7:57:00 – friction points and building the program
7:58:00 – around
7:59:00 – that as well on a more content level
8:02:00 – throughout the customer journey
8:03:00 – um through email yeah i think that’s
8:07:00 – powerful
8:07:00 – like it sounds so simple um to just say
8:10:00 – like
8:11:00 – segment down to the top customers most
8:13:00 – valuable customers in uh
8:14:00 – in Klaviyo and then map out like what was
8:17:00 – their journey like how long did it take
8:19:00 – for a reorder what did they reorder
8:20:00 – where did that come from
8:21:00 – where my head kind of goes with this
8:23:00 – type of stuff is um
8:25:00 – where i get excited is being able to get
8:27:00 – the end result of those insights
8:29:00 – um and so for people like you know six
8:31:00 – and seven figure brands have teams right
8:33:00 – that doesn’t mean like as
8:34:00 – you know uh vp ecommerce or something
8:36:00 – that like you should be doing every
8:37:00 – single part of that but like definitely
8:39:00 – i think an action from this episode is
8:41:00 – is
8:42:00 – build that segment and get your team to
8:44:00 – basically get
8:45:00 – you know 100 customer journeys mapped
8:47:00 – out and then somehow figure out how to
8:49:00 – mesh them all up in google sheets or
8:50:00 – in a drawing and then present it to you
8:52:00 – because there’s going to be insights
8:53:00 – that come from that you’re going to
8:54:00 – realize like
8:54:00 – you know everybody reorders within like
8:56:00 – this 30 30 to 40 day window right that’s
8:58:00 – probably
8:59:00 – your reorder time and see what you can
9:01:00 – do to bring that to 15. right
9:02:00 – those are probably short time periods
9:04:00 – but you get the idea like get your team
9:06:00 – yeah compile that yeah and it depends on
9:08:00 – the product too and what’s great too
9:10:00 – is like let’s say you don’t have a lot
9:11:00 – of time if you’re cmo level
9:13:00 – vp level director level or even just the
9:15:00 – founder ceo
9:16:00 – or entrepreneur co-founder like you can
9:19:00 – just look at
9:20:00 – a hundred profiles in the course of an
9:22:00 – hour or two inside Klaviyo and you can
9:24:00 – really use your
9:25:00 – gut to kind of feel it out um you know
9:28:00 – if you don’t have the time to
9:29:00 – or money to invest in a firm that’s
9:30:00 – gonna do this for a hundred thousand
9:32:00 – dollars and actually like map everything
9:33:00 – out you can kind of feel it out
9:34:00 – especially until you get to that level
9:35:00 – then you just pay someone to do it for
9:37:00 – you if you have the budget yeah and
9:38:00 – they’ll go through and they’ll even
9:39:00 – interview customers and and that’s when
9:40:00 – it gets really powerful because you can
9:42:00 – say like hey
9:43:00 – i didn’t buy because xyz exact reason
9:45:00 – and then you have the survey data and
9:46:00 – then we put that in the band of card
9:47:00 – emails you guys do it with your live
9:49:00 – chats
9:49:00 – and that’s when like you know it’s like
9:51:00 – you a b test buttons all day you can a b
9:53:00 – test timing all day but when you
9:54:00 – actually take real objections off the
9:56:00 – table through this customer data and you
9:57:00 – build the program around what customers
9:59:00 – are actually doing like
10:00:00 – that’s that’s our secret sauce and why
10:01:00 – we drive so much revenue for our clients
10:04:00 – yeah yeah it’s funny like secret sauce
10:05:00 – is usually just a lot of very
10:07:00 – sophisticated work that
10:08:00 – you know people won’t do themselves um
10:10:00 – that’s what i’ve seen because like when
10:11:00 – you’ve done that when you’ve done that
10:13:00 – uh 500 times like it’s very very simple
10:16:00 – for you to do it for
10:16:00 – one more brand and see okay here it is
10:18:00 – it’s like a doctor right like if you’ve
10:20:00 – diagnosed something 500 times like it’s
10:21:00 – pretty fast for you to see it
10:23:00 – and that’s the benefit of working with
10:24:00 – people that do this stuff all the time
10:26:00 – um i want to spend uh i want to spend
10:28:00 – some time digging into sms here at the
10:30:00 – end
10:30:00 – um like you mentioned earlier like
10:32:00 – lumping in email and sms like it’s all
10:34:00 – it’s all
10:35:00 – um part of the game now um i wanna i
10:39:00 – wanna rapid fire through some questions
10:40:00 – to understand
10:41:00 – like how big uh source should be
10:44:00 – thinking about
10:44:00 – where sms fits in and like the cadence
10:47:00 – between
10:48:00 – email and sms and that balance there’s a
10:50:00 – lot of different angles we can take but
10:52:00 – i think that everyone would agree like
10:53:00 – okay we should be doing sms
10:55:00 – but i don’t think people have really
10:56:00 – understood like how it fits into the
10:58:00 – overall email architecture so i want you
11:00:00 – to kind of explain how that fits in
11:02:00 – the balance between email and sms kind
11:04:00 – of paint a picture on that
11:07:00 – yeah in terms of performance or more in
11:09:00 – terms of like executing tactically
11:11:00 – alongside email i think it’s more of
11:14:00 – executing tactically so like where does
11:16:00 – sms fit into the automated flows like if
11:18:00 – you’re doing campaigns like you do sms
11:20:00 – and email or do you split it up
11:22:00 – that second one might be a little bit
11:24:00 – too granular but more about how to
11:26:00 – execute
11:26:00 – both in a way where they serve each
11:28:00 – other rather than just like we layered
11:30:00 – in some sms randomly and like we’ll see
11:32:00 – how it goes like sms is kind of a
11:34:00 – a very related channel to email so how
11:36:00 – do how does it all fit together
11:39:00 – right yeah i mean this goes back to a
11:41:00 – bigger problem inside of e-commerce
11:43:00 – which is there’s a lot
11:44:00 – of experiences that just aren’t aligned
11:46:00 – um so you’ll see a tv ad with one
11:48:00 – discount you’ll see a facebook ad with a
11:49:00 – different discount and then you’ll get
11:50:00 – an email with a different offer and a
11:52:00 – text with a disa
11:53:00 – different offer like that’s not good
11:54:00 – that doesn’t feel good to the consumer
11:56:00 – and it creates a lot of friction because
11:58:00 – now they’re confused they’re overwhelmed
11:59:00 – they don’t convert
12:00:00 – the same happens with email and sms if
12:01:00 – you’re not sending messages that are
12:02:00 – complementary
12:03:00 – following the same calendar accelerating
12:05:00 – the same automated sequences but you
12:07:00 – just have some sms messages
12:10:00 – sequenced in there you’re going to see a
12:12:00 – lot better results when those are
12:13:00 – working together so that’s the way we
12:15:00 – think about it is like okay think about
12:16:00 – your email and sms channel
12:17:00 – channels what are the most important
12:19:00 – messages you’re sending and then send
12:21:00 – those messages
12:22:00 – also on the sms channel because it’s
12:25:00 – cutting through the noise
12:26:00 – at a rapid rate um and then also like
12:28:00 – build that list too like some
12:30:00 – like a channel like sms is once in a
12:32:00 – lifetime like we got lucky with email
12:34:00 – it’s a list you build and can own
12:36:00 – who knew something else would come out
12:37:00 – that we can do that like sms is really
12:39:00 – like a miracle like the fact that
12:41:00 – there’s two channels where you can own
12:43:00 – the actual list
12:44:00 – where like you know we’ve had facebook
12:46:00 – and google and youtube and instagram
12:47:00 – which is like
12:48:00 – you know those are both owned by the
12:49:00 – same two companies like the fact that we
12:50:00 – have another own channel is like really
12:52:00 – powerful and just yeah
12:53:00 – it’s as simple as layering it on top of
12:54:00 – email and making sure like
12:56:00 – you know you’re not sending a different
12:57:00 – discount out to the text audience as you
12:59:00 – are
13:00:00 – to um the email and you’re creating that
13:02:00 – just like discombobulated disjointed
13:05:00 – experience that
13:06:00 – a lot of brands end up doing especially
13:08:00 – at scale like you’ll see this with
13:09:00 – retail like they’ll have their tv
13:11:00 – ads with the sale and like i said you
13:12:00 – get the facebook ad with a different
13:14:00 – offer and an email with a different
13:15:00 – offer and a text with a different offer
13:16:00 – like
13:17:00 – it’s just a mess so making sure
13:19:00 – everything is congruent and aligned and
13:21:00 – your overall marketing strategy is
13:22:00 – holistic is
13:23:00 – super important and when that happens we
13:25:00 – see increased performance from email
13:27:00 – and sms because you’re just everywhere
13:29:00 – and that’s the best marketing it’s like
13:30:00 – when you’re
13:31:00 – everywhere and and i want to dig in a
13:35:00 – little bit more into the cadence right
13:36:00 – so i get it of like keep the customer
13:38:00 – experience aligned
13:39:00 – across the channels help us understand
13:41:00 – um
13:42:00 – when it’s right to use sms and when it’s
13:45:00 – right to use email as far as like the
13:46:00 – sequence of communication or how long
13:48:00 – it’s been from the trigger or
13:50:00 – whatever whatever the the methodology is
13:52:00 – how you think about it
13:53:00 – like when do you send sms versus when
13:56:00 – you send email
13:57:00 – um in in either a campaign but i think
14:00:00 – more of this question is about in
14:02:00 – automated flows and things related to
14:03:00 – triggers like when
14:04:00 – when sms went email yeah campaign is
14:08:00 – really straightforward it’s like your
14:09:00 – most important messaging
14:10:00 – just send that right your sale campaign
14:13:00 – your new product launch
14:14:00 – sending like once or twice a week maybe
14:17:00 – once or twice a month
14:18:00 – if you’re a brand that is like you know
14:19:00 – we don’t want to over communicate or
14:20:00 – potentially annoy customers
14:22:00 – we found like twice a week is really
14:23:00 – good um you know
14:25:00 – campaigns it’s simple right it’s like is
14:26:00 – this an important message is it like
14:28:00 – not a common occurrence send it via text
14:30:00 – so everybody can see it automation side
14:32:00 – it’s a little more tricky
14:34:00 – um but it’s very similar concept so like
14:36:00 – when somebody signs up to your list
14:38:00 – shoot them a welcome text shoot a
14:39:00 – reminder a few days later
14:41:00 – um because they’re gonna see it that’s
14:43:00 – what’s great about sms is it’s like
14:44:00 – it’s not like it’s cannibalizing any
14:46:00 – sales it’s just those eighty percent of
14:48:00 – people the seventy percent of people or
14:49:00 – maybe even ninety percent of people who
14:51:00 – aren’t opening your emails
14:52:00 – um they’re seeing these messages because
14:54:00 – sms is getting a massive open rate so
14:56:00 – it’s like if you got 100 open right on
14:57:00 – your email
14:58:00 – you drive a lot more revenue that’s the
15:00:00 – revenue that sms is driving
15:01:00 – um so your welcome series is really
15:03:00 – important to be through sms abandoned
15:04:00 – cart is really powerful through sms
15:06:00 – that’s one of the highest roi messages
15:08:00 – you can send
15:08:00 – in all of sms um and then also you know
15:11:00 – working into post purchase but like
15:13:00 – not like an email where you’d say like
15:14:00 – hey thank you and then you send them a
15:16:00 – text a day four weeks to get them
15:18:00 – indoctrinated into the brand like just
15:19:00 – do that via email and
15:21:00 – most important uh flows as well so like
15:23:00 – win back you could do via text as well
15:25:00 – um there but yeah ultimately most
15:28:00 – important messaging
15:29:00 – send it through asset mass got it got it
15:32:00 – that makes sense um
15:34:00 – is it reasonable with the automation to
15:35:00 – to lean towards sms
15:38:00 – when it’s close to the trigger and then
15:40:00 – start skewing out to email
15:42:00 – so with an abandoned cart sms within the
15:45:00 – first
15:45:00 – 30 minutes to one hour email after that
15:48:00 – right like
15:49:00 – like tie it to the actual action that
15:51:00 – caused you to communicate is that is
15:52:00 – that a legit way to think of it
15:54:00 – yeah you can do that or you can do
15:56:00 – something too we call like a two touch
15:58:00 – where we’ll send both messages at the
16:00:00 – same time and you’ll get a text and an
16:01:00 – email on your phone at the same time
16:03:00 – and then you’re a lot more likely to see
16:05:00 – that and convert because it’s like
16:06:00 – brand brand oh what is this you notice
16:09:00 – it in your sea of 100 other nokia
16:11:00 – notifications
16:12:00 – um but then also like you said too it’s
16:14:00 – like example on a welcome series
16:16:00 – you send the welcome series email and
16:18:00 – the uh first text at the same time
16:20:00 – the reminders maybe at the same time and
16:22:00 – then you have like four other welcome
16:23:00 – emails but you don’t have any other
16:24:00 – welcome text
16:25:00 – because it’s just that initial discount
16:27:00 – or offer in that first text
16:29:00 – yeah first how do you how do you make
16:31:00 – sure that like the customer experience
16:33:00 – is is um
16:37:00 – that it feels right to the customer for
16:38:00 – you to be sending a text and an email at
16:40:00 – the same exact time
16:41:00 – are you tweaking the messaging on that
16:43:00 – or are you just realizing like it
16:45:00 – it doesn’t really matter we just send
16:46:00 – both at the same time because i’m kind
16:47:00 – of thinking of it from the customer’s
16:49:00 – perspective of
16:50:00 – you know if you got a text you know 30
16:51:00 – minutes after you abandoned um
16:53:00 – then you know that’s going to sound like
16:54:00 – you know we’re trying to help you with
16:56:00 – any questions that you had right
16:57:00 – and then um if you had an email you know
17:00:00 – a couple hours later especially if you
17:01:00 – did not respond to the text like that
17:03:00 – makes sense
17:04:00 – i find it hard to understand like how
17:06:00 – sending both at the same time unless the
17:07:00 – messaging serves each other
17:09:00 – um wouldn’t feel like you were
17:10:00 – intentionally doing it so that they see
17:12:00 – it
17:12:00 – right which is kind of what you said
17:14:00 – like how do you how do you make sure
17:16:00 – that both of those serve the customers
17:17:00 – experience
17:19:00 – yeah it’s a little bit of both so in
17:20:00 – text you’re limited to the amount of
17:22:00 – characters you have
17:23:00 – so it might be like hey you forgot this
17:24:00 – in your cart and then the email is like
17:26:00 – hey
17:26:00 – here are the products you actually
17:27:00 – forgot and then here’s some common
17:29:00 – objections that we’re answering
17:30:00 – questions some reviews
17:32:00 – so you’re adding value in the email that
17:33:00 – you’re sending as well um and then also
17:35:00 – like most people don’t even see the
17:36:00 – email
17:37:00 – um you know or they like texts are open
17:41:00 – on the fly i think 90
17:42:00 – are open in like the first five or 10
17:43:00 – minutes whereas like you know an email
17:45:00 – we get people opening emails
17:46:00 – for to ten weeks later maybe even a year
17:50:00 – later i was looking at a clever profile
17:51:00 – the other day they opened an email from
17:52:00 – a year ago today
17:54:00 – um whereas like text that doesn’t really
17:55:00 – happen most people are opening up front
17:57:00 – um i don’t think they converted i think
17:59:00 – that i think it was an unsub
18:01:00 – but it’s true yeah
18:04:00 – got it dude this this makes sense um
18:08:00 – i wanna i wanna respect your time so
18:09:00 – we’re coming up uh coming up on time um
18:11:00 – anything else big on
18:13:00 – sms um that you think is important to
18:15:00 – dig into at this point i know we didn’t
18:17:00 – spend a ton of time on it
18:18:00 – yeah it’s just a powerful revenue driver
18:21:00 – and it’s
18:21:00 – really simple to get started with you
18:23:00 – want to do it smart
18:25:00 – but you should be building that list
18:26:00 – right now even if you’re not
18:27:00 – communicating on a consistent basis with
18:29:00 – those
18:30:00 – people just because you’re not going to
18:31:00 – get the time back and with compliance
18:33:00 – you need to add people to your list in a
18:35:00 – way that is compliant
18:36:00 – and you can’t just take an old customer
18:37:00 – list and say hey they are compliant now
18:39:00 – um so like first and foremost start
18:41:00 – building that list and then two it’s
18:42:00 – very powerful uh it’s like setting an
18:44:00 – email that has a 90
18:46:00 – open rate like if you ever normally have
18:48:00 – a 10
18:49:00 – open rate which is like you know not
18:51:00 – good um and you get a 90 over rate like
18:53:00 – that’s a 9x increase in eyeballs on your
18:55:00 – email which is going to lead to a 9x
18:56:00 – increase in revenue
18:58:00 – um so it’s very powerful and we have
18:59:00 – clients who have scaled sms into
19:01:00 – a seven figure channel in less than six
19:03:00 – months even for seven figure brands like
19:05:00 – we have a customer we’re driving
19:07:00 – a hundred to a hundred thirty thousand a
19:09:00 – month in sms alone
19:10:00 – uh it’s outperforming email on some days
19:12:00 – and they’re only a
19:14:00 – 500k per month brand um so they’re
19:16:00 – seeing a large chunk of that revenue
19:18:00 – coming from sms
19:19:00 – and it’s all new revenue to and whenever
19:21:00 – we send out a text
19:23:00 – they know it because they can feel it in
19:24:00 – their warehouse they’re like hey did you
19:25:00 – send another text today and we’re like
19:27:00 – yeah
19:27:00 – why and like because our warehouse is
19:29:00 – working double time to get these orders
19:30:00 – out
19:30:00 – um so you can actually feel it it’s a
19:32:00 – great channel you know these are really
19:34:00 – like
19:34:00 – once every 20 years that they actually
19:36:00 – come out and can be used the technology
19:38:00 – is now here to be
19:39:00 – able to do it in a scalable and
19:40:00 – compliant way um
19:43:00 – which didn’t really exist five years ago
19:45:00 – um
19:46:00 – and so it’s it’s an awesome channel
19:48:00 – definitely take advantage of it build
19:49:00 – your list in the very least and the same
19:50:00 – with email like email is still crushing
19:52:00 – at a very high level the average um
19:54:00 – i think shopify plus store on klavio is
19:56:00 – getting over 100x roi on their spend
19:59:00 – super powerful you can’t find it
20:00:00 – anywhere if you’re really roi driven
20:02:00 – focus on channels like even on sms to
20:05:00 – take what you’re doing like don’t get
20:06:00 – rid of acquisition but you can really
20:08:00 – take your business and brands to the
20:09:00 – next level and unlock a lot of growth by
20:11:00 – driving
20:11:00 – more revenue from what you already have
20:14:00 – in terms of your existing traffic and
20:15:00 – customer base
20:17:00 – awesome dude awesome this was super
20:18:00 – powerful i want to ask you in a second
20:20:00 – um you know what uh what people can do
20:23:00 – to continue the conversation with you or
20:24:00 – like you know the main resource on your
20:26:00 – site that you think would be helpful for
20:27:00 – them to dig deeper
20:28:00 – um but i always try to recap also at the
20:30:00 – end um of what we
20:32:00 – what we kind of went through and some of
20:33:00 – the big takeaways i think um
20:35:00 – you know one of the big items we dove
20:36:00 – into is like how email just fits in as a
20:38:00 – channel right like acquisition is hard
20:40:00 – facebook’s expensive
20:41:00 – uh you know google google is google um
20:44:00 – you know tick tock’s big right now but
20:45:00 – eventually that’ll change like
20:46:00 – er the acquisition channels change but
20:48:00 – you don’t own any of them right so like
20:50:00 – email fits in in a way where it’s like
20:51:00 – this is your customer list and your
20:53:00 – prospect list and you can you can
20:54:00 – leverage that
20:55:00 – um so it’s super super important to get
20:57:00 – right um dylan also went into
21:00:00 – you know what brands do well uh what
21:02:00 – brands do right when it comes to email
21:04:00 – right so like
21:05:00 – being able to quantify it having you
21:07:00 – know the right um
21:08:00 – flows in place um you know having the
21:10:00 – right optimization process in place like
21:12:00 – there’s a number of things we dove into
21:14:00 – there
21:14:00 – um and then not you know over segmenting
21:17:00 – i think was another takeaway like
21:19:00 – segment based on
21:20:00 – what part of the customer journey has
21:21:00 – the best opportunity for you and the
21:23:00 – customer not
21:24:00 – you know these people want uh blah blah
21:26:00 – blue plans so now they’ll buy red pants
21:28:00 – right and like there’s three of them
21:29:00 – um too small um so there’s a lot of
21:32:00 – stuff here we also talked about sms
21:33:00 – which i know dylan recapped at the end
21:35:00 – bottom line do sms build your list um
21:36:00 – start exploring it because it’s it’s uh
21:39:00 – it could be as powerful or more powerful
21:41:00 – than email and it’s an owned audience
21:43:00 – right
21:43:00 – um as we uh so we’ll have a lot of stuff
21:46:00 – in the show notes
21:47:00 – um of like additional resources and a
21:49:00 – much better recap than i just did but um
21:51:00 – if people want to continue the
21:52:00 – conversation with you or like dig
21:54:00 – in uh to some resource that you put
21:57:00 – together to kind of like study even
21:58:00 – further before connecting with
22:00:00 – you what’s the best way for them to do
22:02:00 – that
22:03:00 – yeah so we’ve got a lot of resources on
22:06:00 – our website
22:07:00 – of tactical email examples which you can
22:09:00 – find at Wavebreak.co
22:11:00 – resources one of our most popular is
22:14:00 – a retention marketing guide and how you
22:16:00 – can use email to
22:17:00 – fuel more profit in your business and
22:19:00 – the math on how to double your business
22:21:00 – without doubling your ad spend
22:22:00 – um it’s just a really different approach
22:24:00 – than most people take to email
22:26:00 – um so it’s a really good read um that’s
22:28:00 – at waybreak dot co slash retention dash
22:30:00 – marketing it’s not
22:31:00 – gated or anything like that it’s
22:33:00 – literally just a guide that you can read
22:35:00 – um and then you can get on the email
22:37:00 – list at waybreak.co
22:38:00 – resources which every week we’re sending
22:40:00 – out podcasts from my podcast the way
22:42:00 – break podcast
22:43:00 – uh so if you enjoyed this enjoyed
22:45:00 – listening to my voice you can go listen
22:46:00 – to more of my voice at
22:47:00 – Wavebreakpodcast.com
22:49:00 – it’s sponsored by Klaviyo and justjuno we
22:51:00 – love them and
22:52:00 – interview a lot of really cool brands
22:53:00 – recently had on chirp how they did 40
22:55:00 – million last year with one sku
22:56:00 – and sold out like six months from the
22:59:00 – year uh their vpn marketing went into
23:01:00 – all the secrets i’ve interviewed founder
23:02:00 – ceo of
23:03:00 – vanity planet alex dasmulci on how they
23:05:00 – scaled influencer marketing into this
23:07:00 – multi-eight-figure brand
23:08:00 – steven barelli cuts clothing a lot of
23:10:00 – other e-commerce leaders
23:12:00 – um getting their secrets behind the
23:13:00 – scenes and conversations just like this
23:15:00 – i think there’s a lot of interviews and
23:16:00 – podcasts out there that
23:18:00 – frankly just aren’t very good they’re
23:20:00 – very boring very enterprise that’s why i
23:21:00 – love coming on john’s stuff because i
23:23:00 – know it’s always good and fun and
23:24:00 – actionable for store owners and
23:26:00 – he’s like if you’re looking for another
23:27:00 – podcast like john’s like way brick
23:29:00 – podcast is a good one and then
23:30:00 – if your brand who’s listening to this
23:32:00 – you’re like oh my goodness we’re not
23:33:00 – doing any of this
23:34:00 – right or we can take it to the next
23:36:00 – level but we don’t have the time or
23:38:00 – resources in-house um you know we can’t
23:40:00 – find anybody
23:42:00 – in the marketplace to do this like to
23:43:00 – hire in-house which is a huge problem
23:45:00 – like a lot of brands are hiring us right
23:47:00 – now because you can’t find any good
23:48:00 – email talent on the market like you’ll
23:50:00 – post job posts in a month later have no
23:51:00 – good leads
23:52:00 – um if you want to take email to the next
23:54:00 – level and have a team of best in class
23:56:00 – experts running your email and sms you
23:57:00 – can learn more about working with us
23:59:00 – at Wavebreak.co and you can schedule a
0:00:00 – call at waybreak.comcall
0:03:00 – awesome man so many good resources i
0:05:00 – forgot about the podcast i should have
0:07:00 – mentioned that earlier but
0:08:00 – really really good resources there
0:09:00 – dylan’s been interviewing uh
0:11:00 – you know just ecom leaders for quite a
0:13:00 – few years so there’s some absolute gold
0:14:00 – in there
0:15:00 – uh i think you’ve been on it too like
0:16:00 – two or three times so if you guys
0:19:00 – perspective on this
0:20:00 – go listen yeah yeah yeah we’ll have
0:22:00 – we’ll link that up in the show notes too
0:24:00 – um just for for some context i think we
0:26:00 – touched on some email stuff there as
0:27:00 – well the abandoned cart flows and things
0:29:00 – that we do to kind of get chat we should
0:30:00 – do another one sometime
0:32:00 – we’ve learned them i know i know it
0:35:00 – feels like things are moving really
0:36:00 – quick so we’ll definitely dig in but um
0:38:00 – for everyone listening the show notes
0:39:00 – will be at ecommercetownhall.com so go
0:42:00 – ahead and check those out
0:43:00 – i hope it’s been helpful for you guys
0:44:00 – and you’re able to basically implement a
0:46:00 – number of things from this
0:48:00 – um and on our end we’d love to hear from
0:50:00 – you guys on
0:51:00 – you know what you implement from this
0:53:00 – episode and how it works so come back to
0:55:00 – ecommercetownhall.com let us know how
0:56:00 – it’s going and we’ll continue the
0:57:00 – conversation there but
0:58:00 – for now dylan thank you so much man i
1:00:00 – really really appreciate the time and
1:01:00 – thanks for dropping so much knowledge
1:03:00 – here
1:03:00 – thanks for having me john it’s been a
1:05:00 – blast
1:06:00 – awesome take care dude thanks for tuning
1:09:00 – in to e-commerce town hall
1:11:00 – for more resources related to today’s
1:13:00 – episode visit e-commerce
1:15:00 – ecommercetownhall.com
1:16:00 – and don’t forget to check out helpflow
1:19:00 – helpflow provides
1:20:00 – 24 7 live chat teams to over a hundred
1:23:00 – e-commerce stores
1:24:00 – and can drive more sales while providing
1:26:00 – an awesome customer experience
1:28:00 – through their live chat agents
1:30:00 – helpflow’s done for you 24 7 live chat
1:33:00 – team
1:33:00 – can predict and save abandons directly
1:36:00 – on your website
1:37:00 – by engaging with chat they can also use
1:39:00 – conversational upsells to increase
1:41:00 – average order value
1:43:00 – in a way that feels good to visitors
1:45:00 – ultimately they’re going to provide an
1:46:00 – overall amazing brand experience to your
1:49:00 – customers
1:49:00 – learn more today at helpflow.com